Can an invisible mini be targeted?... i.e. obviously a player can see it on the map, but if the character is supposedly invisible, is my opponent allowed to drop a burst nearby and thus hit the invisible mini even though there was no other target (visible or otherwise) near the invisible mini??
Supporting D&D Miniatures since 2008
Yes, if a melee attack within reach (though oppo gets Conceal 11 roll).
Yes, if close attack.
No, if ranged attack.
No, if an area attack when invisible, unless a different visible enemy is also in the area.
So, in the situation you have described the answer is no under the June 2011 rules.
This is unless some other power is in play, eg blindsight.
" ... he's off the twig."
For Melee Attacks, it's Yes when adjacent to target !!!
A reach bigger than 1 works like Ranged Attacks .
I would not think melee reach works any different from melee'ing adjacent target. What rule/rules do You base Your verdict on?
EDIT: ok, obvious really, in "melee attacks":
Target: A melee attack can target one adjacent enemy it
has line of effect to, even if it doesn’t have line of sight to
that enemy. If the creature does not have line of sight to
the target, it is considered to have Conceal 11 for the
attack.
I still think having reach greater than one effectively replaces "adjacent enemy" with phrase "an enemy within reach", so nonadjacent invisibles within reach could be targeted.
I can understand the opposite argument now, but I don't think I have ever seen it played that way...
Only line of effect is required to target an enemy with a melee attack. As long as the attacker can draw an unblocked line from it's space to any part of the targets space, it can make a melee attack. The target being invisible does not stop a melee attack, even if non-adjacent, as long as it is within Reach. That is, if you are playing DDM2 with the June 2011 rulebook.
Melee Reach being dealt with using Ranged Rules is similar to Original Edition.
" ... he's off the twig."
BB says:
"No, if an area attack when invisible, unless a different visible enemy is also in the area."
More precisely:
No if an area attack with range "sight" or "nearest", unless a different visible enemy is also in the area (and that enemy qualifies for nearest if that is the range).
Area attacks with "numbered" range can be centered on any square (within LOS & LOE) within the stated range. Any creature within attack radius of (and having LOE to) target square will be targeted.
Thanks so much folks for your time and info!
...skirmish games are my newest and best interest these days!
Area attacks with "numbered" range can be centered on any square (within LOS & LOE) within the stated range. Any creature within attack radius of (and having LOE to) target square will be targeted.
Hmmm... so you CAN decide to "randomly" drop an area attack on a square near/on an invisible creature even though no other creature is near it simply because you want to hit it? Doesn't that seem to erase the invisible characteristic of that character, and why have blindsight if you can 'metagame' that blast?
You're right in saying that the rules don't play intuitively.
It plays literally. (if it doesn't say sight, an area attack doesn't need sight - sight is implied by nearest, btw)
It is assumed that when you are close enought to a target, you can perceive them other ways.
We could have made a rule that allowed sight attacks to also attack creatures of say, 10 squares or less, but that adds a layer of complication, and in this way a range 10 and a range sight attack are somewhat balanced, with different advantages and disadvantages.
Ok, that said, I do regret that ranged (missile) attacks are unable to do the same thing. It would have been nice to only have sight and nearest ranged attacks require sight, and to allow others to attack with conceal 11, like melee.
Guildmaster Head of Organized Play
OK
Rules are rules
But what about melee attacks with reach more than one ?
For me, it works like a ranged attack.
But what is your feeling about that ???
It is consistent with the RPG rules. If you are invisible, you are not hidden. The enemy knows where you are, but just doesn't see you. You have to make a hide check to become hidden. There is a big difference between no line of sight (as with invisible) and hidden.
In RPG, you know where the enemy is even if you don't see it.