Hi all! This is my first post, but i've been a longtime lurker. Anyway, me and a couple of friends have recently started playing again. I have been running the following band:
Death Knight (65)
Skull Lord (41)
Cleric of Nerull (28)
Chillborn x 2 (36)
Bone Shard Skeleton x 2 (14)
Orc Zombie x 3 (15)
10 acts 199pts
My question is regarding Deathstrike Aura from the Cleric and the Skull Lord's Champ power of transferring 20hp to an undead follower that gets destroyed. I am of the opinion that if ... Say a Chillborn gets destroyed and Is within 5 squares of the Cleric that upon death the Chillborn can make an attack and then be "resurrected" via the Skull Lord's champ power. Am i correct? It seems pretty cut and dry to me, based on the wording of both creatures' cards, but one of the guys got mad at my tactic and wasn't convinced that the deathstrike aura could be granted if the creature wasn't actually "destroyed." I argued that it was indeed destroyed, made the attack and then was brought back into play via the Skull Lord. I couldn't find anything in the rules or the forums touching upon this, but if there is and i missed it i apologize. Ultimately am i doing this right or m i rotten no good cheater?
under Resolving Effects, page 8 of battlerules:
Cancellation Effects: Some effects cancel something as it’s
taking place. For example, the Halfling of Melora has a
power that reads “Second Chance: Use when this creature is
hit by an attack: Attacker re-rolls that attack roll instead.”
Such effects must be resolved before other effects
occurring at the same time. If a cancellation effect causes
the initial trigger to no longer be valid, other effects that
would normally resolve because of that trigger do not
occur.
In this case Skull Lord's CP is cancellation effect, it must be applied first and then the destruction never happened (thus no deathstrikes, sorry).
You are no rotten cheater, You simply had mistaken idea about rather fine distinction in game: cancellation of an effect really "makes it not have happened" and cancellation must be applied first. .... Now You'll be a cheater if You try that again
Somewhat unrelated: the Imp can actually be destroyed, but the new imp is really a separate creature, not the old one resurrected. (and unlike death avoiders, KP are scored for the killed imp)
Cleric of Nerull's CP can also cancel death, but in that case it is explicitly stated that "death cancellation" occurs after deathstrike.
The "spirit" of cancellation rule above implies that if C o Nerull's CP use is possible then deathstrike should be the first power triggered by the destruction - in this manner the potential cancellation is as close to triggering event as possible.
(This is somewhat complicated: the cancellation rule can't be applied fully, so it is not quite clear whether it should be applied at all - other rules govern order of resolution of effects, so perhaps cancellation rule should only override those in cases where cancellation can be administered fresh.)
Interesting question is whether the predetermined destruction ordered by C o Nerull CP at end of the affected creature's next turn can be (again) avoided by some cheat-death-power.
Nothing in card texts says it can't be done, but I seem to recall that it has been ruled (link anyone?) that such timed destructions can't be avoided.
And here i thought i found a great tactic, albeit a little gimmicky.
i'd be curious about the timed death as well; the tactic would slightly change but still remainly largely the same, just limited in use by 1 turn.
Here's some gimmickry to consider:
Bone Devil + Cleric of Nerull + Boneshard Skeleton + Skull Lord
if You miss with Boneshard, Bone Devil can Cull it, granting You
1a)immediate Death Burst or immediate deathstrike by Boneshard
1b)or save the Bonerhard with Skull Lord CP (By current understanding of the power Culling has lost it no HPs)
2) immediate sting attack by Bone Devil
3) possibly additional free Relentless Sting attack/attacks by Bone
Devil as long as those stings keep killing enemies
4a)if You used Deathstrike and made damage with it:
Cleric's cheat death CP (possibly allowing You
to retry this combo one more time with same Boneshard)
4b)if You used Death Burst:
Skull Lord's CP to increase necrotic Burst damage
Ironically (barring enemies with resist necrotic or similar), the least guaranteed damage (10hp) occurs when the Boneshard actually hits with initial melee attack.
If You miss, with burst there's guaranteed 5+10 necrotic even if the burst & stings all miss.
Notes:
a) Plenty of freedom choosing right targets for granted attacks: try to allow stings a chance to kill (for relentless) & deathstrike to damage (for CP cheat death). Kobold miners are Your favorites here - no need to hit to cause damage
b) The positioning needs to be good
c) Cursed rot scarab: save 2 pts - and You actually don't mind the Boneshard missing attacks that much, nor are its hps so relevant if You'll cull anyway
d) Old cards, but apparently both Deathstrike & Death Burst are both immediate actions - You only get one (damn ...)
(If the card revision ever goes forward the burst will likely be changed to something more like Chillfire Destroyer's automatic triggered power)
Further:
There are some pretty much unplayable (titanish) pieces that nevertheless can get nice synergy out of deathstrike aura (and/or other tricks touched upon here). What ideas can You come up with?