This is comments on the dragons collection page, think it needs moving:
Treasure Collector: You score +10 VP whenever this creature destroys a creature carrying an item.
Does this power really allow you to gain VPs for destroying your own creature carrying a treasure?
All the references in the Battle Rules refer to getting VPs when you destroy an enemy creature; I read nothing in this Power that changes this.
Also, the usual way a bonus that is worded as "+ 10", you have to have something in the first place before you get the bonus. My example is the way "+10 damage" is handled on powers like Sneak Attack, you need the hit that has damage (in the base damage) to get the bonus damage.
If the power was worded: You gain 10 VPs whenever this creature destroys a creature carrying an item, I would accept such an interpretation of Treasure Collector.
Any thoughts?
Bonuses with Damage are not dependent only on whether damage is done, but also whether the attack hits.
This type of VP control bonuses normally don't require that there is VP gained in the first place. See for example Prisoner's ability. I do think that the bonus, as written, is gained even if there were no VP gained to add to.
Now, whether Treasure Collector should work that way, or be limited just to destroying enemies with items, that is another matter. Personally, I would allow it, just to make this one titan a serious threat.
With the prisoner you are scoring VPs (depending on the scenario), it's Power gives you an extra 5.
" ... he's off the twig."
To my knowledge, there are no scenarios (perhaps some obscure homebrew versions?) where a creature scores VP when it ends its turn in a VA. So, that leaves us with two options:
1) You are confused on how the Prisoner's ability works,thinking that his power will allow him to score an "extra" 5 VP at the end of the round for occupying a VA. This is not how the Prisoners Power works. He scores the 5 VP immediately at the end of his turn. So, when he scores the "extra" 5, he is not scoring any other VP that the "extra" would be added to. Just the 5 VP.
2) You are arguing that the +5 would be in added to the potential VP the Prisoner might gain at the end of its turn. That is just a potential gain in VP, not actual, and one could then argue that the +10 from Treasure Collector are in addition to the VP from kills that Blaze is bound to score.
Either way, I don't see much basis for argument.
Granted, I accept the use of treasure collector to score VPs for destroying allies with treasure cards.
Next question ... It was suggested that you could give a pile of low cost minis treasure items (kobold miners) then use Forgebreath to kill them, ending a possible +80 VPs up.
How does this fit in with duplicate effects?
The damage from Forgebreath is resolved simultaneously, so all the miners are destroyed at the same "time". Treasure collector kicks in, but surely this is then counted as a duplicate effect now ... And a player cannot be affected by two or more uses of the same power at once.
So, in such a case Treasure Collector can be used to score +10 VPs only, no matter how many miners with treasure cards are destroyed.
" ... he's off the twig."
This seems solid. Good catch. If the power read "+10 for each", then one could get it more than once, but as it reads "whenever", it seems to reference a single event, such as a Blast attack.
The power lists +10 VP, that means you have to be scoring points to get the bonus.
I think everyone would agree with this situation:
Mindslice attack (+14 vs Will; Weakened). The Mindslicer would get the +4 attack bonus from the Champion power, but not the +10 damage, since the attack does not do damage.
Warband with Githyanki Dragon Knight and Githyanki Mindslicer. GDK uses its champion power to give Githyanki allies +4 Attack and +10 Damage. Later that round, the Mindslicer uses its
Everyone agree with that? Yes? Then you would agree if you were not scoring VP for killing a creature, you could not score the +10 VP for Treasure Collector. Since there are no rules in the game that allow you to score VP for destroying your own creature, the bonus VP from Treasure Collector can not be gained when you destroy your own creature.
This gets interesting when you have a Kobold Miner with an item. Most people think of the miner as not worth any points, but it is actually worth 0 points when eliminated. That mean you would gain the bonus 10 VP from Treasure Collector when you destroy a Miner with an item.
Same argument as with BB. Bonuses for VP are denoted differently from bonuses to damage, and do not require base to be added to, IMHO.
I had that train of thought regarding treasure collector, until I remembered the Large Silver Dragon (Archfiends) CP:
Use when this champion starts it turn in one of your victory areas: Score +10 VP.
At the time you score these 10 VPs, you are not gaining any from any other source.
It seems that "+" for VPs is handled different to a"+" bonus for an attack.
" ... he's off the twig."