This power:
Feywild Sojourn: Use at start of this creature's
turn: This creature heals 15 HP, then remove it
from the battle map. At start of the next round,
put it on the battle map in one of your victory
areas.
Imagine that the affected creature is under somekind of ongoing power, like ongoing damage, immobilized, effects that need a saving.
Is my understand that the creture leaves the battle map before the saving phases. then my question is:
It makes the save anyway?
if it not make the save, when the creature return to battlemap it return with the condition? i believe so.
Now this is a good question and is related to a larger topic. I have before asked whether creatures that are removed from the board for various reasons (not yet in play, removed due to a power) should activate. The answer has been "not unless specified that they do". So, from this I have deduced the following rule of thumb:
If a creature takes a turn (activates), it will also make a save.
So, in the case of the Sarcophagus for example, the trapped creature takes a turn, and hence would also save. In the case of an unactivated Spectral Panther being removed from the table, it would not take a turn, nor would it roll a save.
In all instances, being removed from the table never removes any conditions by itself, so any returning pieces would have all the same conditions they had when they were removed (unless they actually took a turn and saved, of course).
To answer Papa specifically, regarding Feywild Sojourn, the creature starts a turn, is removed from play, and ends it's turn with a save. If that save is successful, the condition is removed, otherwise it will retain that condition when it returns to the board.
Does anyone think this is not how we should play this?
The good sense says this will be resolved this way.
but the good sense ends when one can see he can get something usefull for this power and the other think he can loose.
Lets see this hipotetial and possible situation.
The druid is battle against a Howling Hag a creture with this power:
■❑ A Baleful Whispers: (range 10, radius 1) +10
vs DEF (Will); 20 Damage AND 10 Damage at
start of each of target’s turns until target ends
its turn farther from this creature; RECHARGE if
no creatures are aff ected by this power at start
of round
Think on this situation, the druid is immobilized by an prewius attack and is hit BW.
Now the question is:
Will be the druid far enough to get rid of the special condition of Baleful Whispers?
At the same time another question i think is more important.
Can this be relevant enoght to avoid some champion powers of mass damage?
Example: Use when you win initiative; each non-Cold
enemy and non-Cold ally takes 5 cold damage;
then its line of sight ends after 6 squares until end of
round.
Is my undestanding that creatures out of the battlefield can avoid this kind of attack.
I would rule that the Druid has not ended farther away and remains affected by the power. Distance that can not be calculated is not further, to me.
Also, I would rule that creatures not in play are not affected by the type of mass damage champion powers. I can not find justification for this, it is just how I would rule it.
The whole problem stems from inadequate definitions of "not on the battlefield". I would very much like to see it defined better.
I agree with comom sense with the other resolutions pointed by your opinion Just.
But this one is something that i think, if i go to a competitive game and make use of this to avoid somekind of damage - note that this can be used not only vs champion powers -, will start a real good argue. I can think in a lot of people disagree of this power, if this put they warband and strategys in bad shape.
Do You mean that any trigger or prerequisite for a power that includes some reference to distance (or change of distance) can not be fulfilled if the relevant distance is not well defined?
So it would be no further, no closer and not the same distance away either...
Rather heavy Zen, but workable, perhaps
To Mr T: Yes, Zennish, but I could not quickly come up with anything that would be broken by the thinking above, nor could I come up with anything that works better while still retaining some semblage of logic. Perhaps you will, you are pretty good at tearing stuff apart.
To Papa: I would find it difficult to argue that creatures not in play are affected by anything done by creatures in play. What argument would you think could be used?
Then again, my postulation about the saves is difficult. As there are several champ powers and others that trigger off of made or failed saves. So, the dilemma still exists.
Taking sarcophagus victim as example:
I think the victim at least "connects to play" when it takes turn and performs attack or save - even as it is not located anywhere on battlemap
Making an attack, it can therefore be subjected to various powers triggering from targeting, hitting or missing that attack, as long as no other requisites (such as distance) exist.
Same with saving throws methinks.
What this boils down to is me wishing "Fires of Dis" would specify "each enemy and each ally in play", 'cause I now have hard time explaining to myself why it should not affect creatures out of play...
Oh, but the argument I'm making is that Entombed Sarcophagus victims are actually not out of play. It is a different mechanic (again). Spectral Panthers, Delayed Appearance creatures, a few Summoned cretures, Will 'o' wisps etc. are actually out of play. Sarcophagus victims, as well as Chain Golem victims are still in play, just not on the map (more akin to Mounting, but again, not quite). Those critters still take turns, and I would say they are affected by Fires of Dis.
All good points to make as I edit rules.
Guildmaster Head of Organized Play